by Eloy Lasanta ({REL[352][articleGame]shxU0aV3REL} Editorials)
Well, here we are again. With this article, I plan on addressing the key differences between the Kindred and Kuei-jin and how these differences effect the outlook of the game. I have heard too many times that the Kuei-jin are nothing but “Twinks”; that they are overpowered and shouldn’t be compared to Kindred at all. I’ve found quite the opposite, in fact, during the many crossovers I have played in.
The idea of what the Ancestors and Elders are capable of later on in their unlives is a bit different, but nonetheless, at the same power level. Thousand Crane Mother, the Thrashing Dragon Bodhisattva, can change herself into anything (no matter how big or small) and the Tzimisce Antediluvian cannot be killed unless each of his individual molecules is destroyed. Which one is more powerful? I think their equal in scope or power, yet different because of the different mindset. But I really won’t be getting into the higher (6+) Discipline powers; I’ll be sticking to the ones that are actually achievable by the player character.
What I hope to do with this article is to show you the differences, the strengths and weaknesses and in the end, how equal in power they actually are. So, here we go.
Kindred of the East was definitely created to be a more cinematic game, with over the top situations and game mechanics, while Vampire: the Masquerade was more a question of morality and staving off the cravings of a monster. You can see this from simply asking the question: How did you character become what he is? “Well, my character was embraced by a Toreador that loved his flair for fashion and his beauty.” Or. “My character broke out of the Hell of Burrowing Maggots, and took on the Thrashing Dragon Dharma because he wants to challenge his bookish personality.”
Now, neither of the examples was worse than the other and these are concepts that are used more often than you’d think. But it certainly illustrates a point: neither way of being created is better than the other. One comes from Yomi (or Hell) and the other is a creation of another’s selfish desires, which can be hell in itself, right?
Here is another difference between the two. The Kindred are separated into predefined sets of Clans, 13 in case you didn’t know, while Kuei-jin follow 5 different paths, similar to the Roads of Enlightenment, called Dharma (very appropriate for the region of the world they're from).
Vampire’s lean toward the morality thing is what draws most players to the game. You are a bloodsucking monster who is trying to keep your humanity in a world that doesn’t give a shit whether you exist in it or not. Your superiors don’t give a crap either. The only people who seem to care that you exist are the ones that want you dead, whether it be hunters, others of your own kind (even though their not supposed to do that) or the Kuei-jin. It’s a very uncaring setting, even if it appears otherwise. There is so much against them; it’s a wonder that they don’t all commit suicide.
On the flip-side, each of the Dharmas has a certain responsibility to the Middle Kingdom, Direction, and also things they must do to stay with their Dharma, Tenets. The two of them may go against each other at times, but rarely is that even a concern. Even though the shen, all the other supernaturals, may all hate each other just as much as in the west, there is an overtone of Propriety and respect that they give each other, leading to less of a feeling of constant hate. Also, it’s not set around an entirely internal struggle (don’t get me wrong, I love those just as much), as they also join forces against the Yama Kings. That proves that no matter how bad things get between the Kuei-jin, they will work together on some things.
The two games are definitely different, yet can each fit into each others worlds quite easily. A lone Kuei-jin lost in the World of Darkness, could definitely hook up with a Cainite for companionship. They aren’t that different and not all Kuei-jin have been brainwashed to hate Kin-jin automatically. Likewise, those Kindred who call the Middle Kingdom their home might not like their lands being taken over by Bakemono and other demons and would work to go against them. Advantage: Tied, I don’t think the concept of Clans is better than Dharmas or vice versa.
Frenzy equals Fire Soul. Rotschreck equals Wave Soul. Their effects and triggers are not exactly the same, yet are close enough to say that they are. Although, Kuei-jin have one extra Soul State: Shadow Soul, when the P’o takes over the body. Both of these vampires have a Beast inside, yet only one of them has a voice. Only one of them has the ability to take over the body completely against the character’s will and wreak more havoc than any frenzy. This is one strong disadvantage that the Kuei-jin have that is non-existent in the Kin-jin.
Let it be said that the Kindred may actually avoid these altered soul states more often than the Kuei-jin. They roll only against themselves, while the Kuei-jin roll against the P’o in several series of resisted rolls, which usually end up with the P’o on top. Another reason why Kindred it easy. Advantage: Kindred.
Here, we’ll go over the abilities that are natural to all of the Kindred as a whole and all the Kuei-jin as well. They have different abilities that vary in effect. It should be stated as well, that all of the Kindred’s natural abilities are automatic and require no rolls, while almost all of the Kuei-jin’s require tests against the P’o or the Wall to activate, meaning they are not guaranteed usage of it when needed. Let’s take a look at them, shall we?
The Embrace. The first and most powerful, IMO, ability of the Kindred is to create more of their kind, something the Kuei-jin cannot do. All but the thinnest-blooded Cainite has this ability. With the exchange of blood, a new Kindred may be born in a matter of minutes. There are Kindred laws against creating a Childer without prior permission, but more Kindred are created without consent than they would like to acknowledge.
Blood Bonding. With the infusion of blood into the body of a human, they can be persuaded to do many things. They have an instant connection to the Kindred, wanting to please them in any way possible. If the vampire can place his blood into the victim’s body, there are various things that can be done to manipulate them. Another tool used against humanity.
Ghouls. A more intense form of Blood Bonding, with enough blood spread out over time the victim will become you willing slave. They will do anything for the character, even kill themselves. Having a ghoul in the police, in the mayor’s office and in the local nightclub, a Kindred can have a network of spies, undying loyal to them. Also, a ghoul will stop aging and will develop the Disciplines of their progenitor. This is not always a forcible thing; sometimes the mortals will seek out the Kindred to enhance themselves. Needless to say, the ability to enslave someone, whether willingly or forcibly, is a huge one indeed. Kuei-jin require a 5th Level power to do this same thing.
Raising Physical Attributes. The Kindred can instinctually pump blood into their body to raise their physical attributes. The Kuei-jin may only accomplish this with the help of certain Shintai, so they are at the clear disadvantage here.
The Kiss. Something that is helpful in their hunting, that no matter scared or mad the victim is that you are stealing their life’s blood away from them, the feeling they receive from it is one of pure ecstasy. This unique to the Kindred, while the Kuei-jin stealing Chi can wholly depress the or totally enrage a victim while suck them dry, making the Kindred’s hunting much easier in comparison.
Fangs. The last and final thing is their natural fangs that can be extended at will. They are able to pierce even the toughest skin and then with a simple flick of the tongue, the bite marks are gone. The Kuei-jin leave big gaping holes that usually get infected. Another trace of the Kindred’s subtle, but deadly powers.
Feeding. One over looked advantage that the Kindred have over the Kuei-jin is the ability to feed from blood banks, animals or humans. The Kuei-jin must take Chi from the body of a human only, which give the Kindred more sources of available Vitae.
Speak with Spirits. Using their Hun, the Kuei-jin may, at times, communicate with Spirits near them. This does not give them the ability to see the spirit, however. That is a separate power all together. The Kin-jin have access to this kind of ability only through the Medium Merit.
Assisted Spirit Travel. With the help of some jade, the Kuei-jin may travel into the Spirit Realm, or Umbra. They may Step Sideways like the Hengeyokai or use the jade boat ability, creating a vessel to travel along the Dragon Lines. Getting your hands on specially crafted and imbued jade is hard to come by, however.
Heightened Senses. This power works equal to Auspex Level 1, however the Kuei-jin can gain automatic use of it with a successful activation roll. This is one part of the character make up that Vampire players complain about the most, which they get for free what the Kindred must actually work for. Here would be the key difference though. 1) The Kuei-jin must make his roll to activate, which is not automatic. 2) Their lowered difficulty is offset by their Dharma, which constantly is fluctuating. While a Kindred with Auspex 3, enjoys a –3 difficulty and can lower it even more with experience, a Kuei-jin is bound by his Dharma level, which usually stays low, and does not have another power to replicate it in its stead.
Yin Energies. With the Yin, the Kuei-jin can do a few things. 1) See Wraiths and other Yin Spirits. 2) Find the reason for someone illness, whether you know how to solve it or not is a different issue altogether. 3) Perform a death strike by concentrating and finding the weak point of your target. All of these abilities must have successful roll or they do not work.
Yang Energies. The Yang energies can be used to do the following other actions: 1) See Yang spirits and anyone hiding in the umbra. 2) Mix your yang with liquid to create a healing drink. 3) Sense emotional connections between people and how they feel right now.
P’o Energies. The dangerous force of the P’o, Demon Chi, also needs a roll to delve into. A failure means you cannot access them and too good of a roll can throw the Kuei-jin into a frenzy. So this is not the power to mess around with lightly. 1) Can induce voluntary Frenzy. 2) can be used for extra actions and strength successes. 3) can give fangs or a maw (Str+2 Aggravated). The P’o can also be used to deflect mental attacks. However, this calls for an immediate check for Shadow Soul.
Feeding. The Kuei-jin can feed from the same source, humans, but in different ways, Flesh, Blood, Breath and Osmosis. Although, Player characters will only ever be able to get to Breath, unless you’re playing a power game of course. Also, the Kuei-jin can eat normal food with no problem.
Advantage: Tied. The Natural abilities in my opinion are both powerful in different ways. No one is better than the other in this case.
Now, we get to the nitty-gritty of the argument. Who has the more powerful disciplines? Because knows that in the end, it will sometimes come down to what kind of super powers you’ll have that will lead you to certain character types. The biggest difference between them all is that the Kuei-jin disciplines are very sporadic, different powers jumping around all within the same Discipline, whereas the Kindred Disciplines are very defined, yet because they are specified, make them that much more powerful and potent. Here, I’ll breaking down each power into its individual abilities and seeing how they compare to each others and how they can affect the other as well.
Animalism vs. Beast Shintai. Thinking of the disciplines in a broader sense, it might seem that the Kuei-jin have the upper hand concerning this power. However, comparing each individual level will show you that the Kindred have it much better with animals. Level 1: Speaking with animals, instead of simply filling it fear. Level 2: Summoning a herd of any type of animal, instead see through the eyes of a single creature. Level 3: the ability to alter the beast of animals and humans, instead of only now getting the ability to summon. Level 4: Animal possession, instead of simple animal mind control. Talking about Level 5 is a different situation however. Beast Shintai presents a Beast Form, comparable to that of the Hengeyokai. While Animalism let’s the Kindred curse someone else with their Beast. I think Beast Shintai is the clear loser with all but Level 5’s power. Which it’s hard to get to anyway, since all the Disciplines require Current x8 for new levels. Advantage: Kindred.
Auspex vs. Chi’iu Muh. Normally, you would not think to couple these two Disciplines against one another, but they do have a common thread that binds them. Both lead to the Vampire’s search for understanding of their psychic nature, yet they can do very different things. Level 1: The Kuei-jin at this level, receive prophetic dreams. Kindred gain Heightened Senses. Level 2: The Kindred at this level can see auras of their target. Kuei-jin see auras, as well as all the spirit realms at once. Level 3: The Kuei-jin can now put up a Dragon Ward, not allowing access inside a certain area. The Kindred gain Psychometry. Level 4: Kuei-jin gain the ability to purify or taint someone’s soul. Kindred gain Telepathy. Level 5: At this level, the Kuei-jin can devour the soul or reconstruct it. The Kindred can leave its body with Astral Projection. Now, you can sort of see the similarities? But in the end, no matter how powerful the Dragon Eye is for the Kuei-jin, Auspex is a Discipline that beats all others. Advantage: Kindred.
Dominate vs. Obligation. Now, it is easy to tell which of these two powers is more powerful just by an explanation of what it does. Dominate is mind control. Obligation is soul control. Which do you think would be more powerful? Level 1: The Kuei-jin can look into the soul of the target, finding out even repressed memories. The Kindred can Speak a simple command that must be obeyed. Level 2: The Kuei-jin can create a mind link, allowing for the manipulation of social rolls, emotions and can read surface thoughts. The Kindred can plant a false thought or hypnotic suggestion. Level 3: The Kuei-jin can compel everyone in a room to obey them, even the shen. The Kindred can erase memories from the victim’s mind. Level 4: The Kuei-jin can stare into and spiritual burn your soul, leading to derangement and willpower loss. The Kindred has broken down the will power enough to Condition his victims. Level 5: The Kuei-jin can create a link similar to a Ghouling, although it overrides any other Blood Bonds the target may have. The Kindred can possess their target. It is obvious from the description, that while Dominate is a great discipline, it’s just not as great as Obligation. Advantage: Kuei-jin.
Fortitude vs. Iron Mountain. Both of these Disciplines are used for defense purposes and work in similar ways (Fortitude adds dice to your rolls and Iron Mountain lowers the difficulties of your rolls). It is a matter of preference, really, which is better. I personally prefer the lowered difficulty instead of additional dice, because those extra dice could be additional 1’s. The thing that gives this one over to the Kindred if the fact that Iron Mountain is a Demon Art and requires a Shadow Soul check, a big downer. Advantage: Kindred.
Celerity and Potence vs. Black Wind. Look at Celerity, for every blood point spent you get your Celerity rating in extra actions. Look at Potence; you automatically have your Potence rating in automatic strength successes on all actions. Both of those are pretty sick, in my opinion. Now, the Kuei-jin have Black Wind, which incorporates them both. For every Demon Chi spent, the Kuei-jin can have their Black Wind Rating in extra actions, strength successes or a combination of both. But herein lays the reason why the Kindred have it better. The Kuei-jin must roll versus Shadow Soul during the activation of any Demon Art (which Black Wind is) and he must also roll versus Fire Soul (Frenzy) to use this power. Also, while the average Kindred keeps their Blood Pools full to their Generational capacity (which is never lower than 10, unless you’re a 14th or 15th Generation), the average Kuei-jin has maybe 3 or 4 Demon Chi. Advantage: Kindred.
Vicissitude vs. Flesh Shintai (FS) and Bone Shintai (BS). Both the Kindred and Kuei-jin have the ability to manipulate Flesh and Bone. The Kindred have created a single Discipline for this, while the Kuei-jin 2 different ones. If you look at the differences, however, you’ll see that Vicissitude beats both of them up (with a few exceptions, of course). Level 1: The Kindred can change their physical appearance. The Kuei-jin can either stretch out his limbs (FS) or change their skin to look like corpse, which adds health levels (BS). Already the Kindred have the advantage. Level 2: The Kindred gains the ability to manipulate not only his own flesh in anyway imaginable, but also others. The Kuei-jin can either detach their limbs (FS) or turn invisible (BS). Level 3: The Kindred can then manipulate his own and others’ bones. Kuei-jin can either expel a cloud of pot smoke (FS) or manipulate only their own bones (BS). Level 4: The Kindred can turn into a giant monster combat form. The Kuei-jin can either shape a body part or send it to do errands (FS) or expel a cloud of Yin (BS). Level 5: The Kindred can turn himself into blood. The Kuei-jin can either shape shift into any form of equal size (FS) or take a giant monster combat form. So really, if you look at what each power does (and ignore the invisibility thing and Yin/Yang clouds), Vicissitude wipes the floor with even both of the Shintai combined. Also, Vicissitude changes cannot be healed by the Kuei-jin, making it a greatly feared ability. Advantage: Kindred.
Lure of Flame vs. Ghost-Flame Shintai. The biggest difference between these two Disciplines is that they manipulate different types of flame. While Lure of Flame deals with real fire, Ghost-Flame Shintai summons fire from the spirit worlds that have different kinds of effects. Lure of Flames is easy to define as a Discipline; for every level, the Kindred can create a more powerful burst of fire that will continue burning for turns to come. Ghost-Flame Shintai, however, is quite different. Level 1: lights up the Kuei-jin’s face, allowing night vision and extra damage from bite. Level 2: The Kuei-jin can flick a small spirit flame at the target, causes a sting of discomfort, but little else. Level 3: the Kuei-jin can shape the spirit fire into different shapes. Level 4: the Kuei-jin can shoot a gout of spirit fire from his mouth. Level 5: The Kuei-jin can become spirit fire. In the broad spectrum of things, while Lure of Flames gets you a fast and potent effect, Ghost-Flame Shintai is worth it more. Advantage: Kuei-jin.
Protean vs. Jade Shintai. These two disciplines are quite different in execution, but they have certain similarities, because both seem to have been created out of necessity and survival purposes. Level 1: allows for a Kuei-jin to stand his ground, they cannot be knock down or back. Kindred of this level can see perfectly in the dark. Level 2: allows for a Kuei-jin’s walking on walls, farther jumping and protection from falls. Kindred gain the ability to grow feral claws that deal aggravated damage. Level 3: The same for both Kuei-jin and Kindred, where the vampire may sink into the ground for the day. Level 4: allows flight over the Dragon Lines for Kuei-jin and animal transformation for Kindred. Level 5: allows the Kuei-jin to transform his body into representations of each of the elements (fire, water, wood, metal, and earth). But the Kindred can turn into only mist. In the end, for its shear versatility, I would say that Jade Shintai would be better, although it was a close race. I mean, Protean give Aggravated damage. Advantage: Kuei-jin.
Chimerstry vs. Smoke Shintai. Illusions are not unknown to the Kuei-jin, yet they have very little access to it as a tool. Smoke Shintai is a little know power they can learn, however, its illusion powers are not kept only to things you can see. Level 1: The Kindred can summon static images. The Kuei-jin can take a little bit of smoke and make it into a lot. Level 2: The Kindred can summon static images that appeal to senses. The Kuei-jin can use smoke to cloud a target’s judgment, making his word more believable. Level 3: The Kindred can create moving images that appeal to senses. The Kuei-jin can shout a gout of smoke into the victim’s eyes. Level 4: The Kindred can now make his illusions permanent. The Kuei-jin can create illusions from smoke that seem real to the untrained eye. Level 5: The Kindred can create an illusion so powerful that the victim’s mind conceives it as real. The Kuei-jin can deal fire damage with his bare hands. Now, the difference between the two Disciplines is very noticeable, almost like they shouldn’t have been put up against each other, but they both dealt with illusions in one way or another. But Chimerstry beats our Smoke Shintai for shear versatility. This is one of those cases of a power being specified to beat out all others. Advantage: Kindred.
Obtenebration vs. Yin Prana. Yin Prana is the practice of manipulating Yin energies and Shadow is the biggest of them. The Kindred can use their power over shadow to do many different things. Level 1: Allows both the Kindred and Kuei-jin to hide in shadows. Level 2: For the Kuei-jin, it gives aggravated damage when wielding a metal weapon, social bonuses when dealing with Yin spirits, and adds bonuses to the natural Yin abilities. The Kindred can create a blanket of shadow. Level 3: By performing a dance, the Kuei-jin slows down all around them, putting them into a drowsy, trance like state. The Kindred can conjure up shadow tentacles, usable in combat and other actions as well. Level 4: The Kindred can become a combat beast made of flesh and shadow. The Kuei-jin can conjure Yin energies into tools, weapons and armor and can create a crazy shadow creature. Level 5: Allows the Kuei-jin to travel into the Yin Spirit Realms without help from any jade. The Kindred can now become a full shadow creature. While Obtenebration is a powerful Discipline in its own right, Yin Prana beats it out due to versatility (again). Advantage: Kuei-jin.
These are the powers that have no direct comparable Discipline to use, which are the advantages for them. Here, I will discuss the purpose of each Discipline and how it can (if it’s used at all) be used as weapon against the other. The idea of Kuei-jin Disciplines being overpowered are greatly exaggerated. They have a few powers that are over the top, yet the majority of them are spiritually based with little effect on anyone but the Kuei-jin her self.
Dementation is not just a destructive Discipline among the Kindred, and this Discipline was made to screw up any opponent (no matter what you are). Level 1: Can fill the target with a rush of emotions against their will. Level 2: curses the target with being haunted by their greatest fears, guilt and other nasty things. Level 3: read patterns of beings to find out their nature and their hidden thoughts. Level 4: can force a target into frenzy or Rotschreck. Level 5: makes the victim totally insane! 5 Derangements?! Against the Cathay: The Kuei-jin have no natural defense, cannot use their P’o against and has no Discipline to counter Dementation. This and Vicissitude and their worst fears of the Kin-jin.
Obfuscate. While the Kuei-jin have a few different abilities of hiding, the Kindred are, simply put, the masters of hiding in plain sight. Level 1: Hide in shadows. Level 2: No one will notice the Kindred as long as they are not searching for the bloodsucker. Level 3: can change the way he looks. Level 4: The power of invisibility. No body can see you. Level 5: with this, the Kindred can also make his entire Coterie invisible as well. Against the Cathay: Once again, it is the ultimate hiding power. The Kuei-jin can see through this power if they have equal Dharma rating to the Obfuscate rating of the Kindred, by having Heightened Senses active. Before you think this is Twinkie, anyone with Auspex can do the same thing.
Presence. How many times have I wished Kuei-jin had Presence? A lot! It’s one of the best powers the Kindred have at their disposal, IMO. Level 1: Low-level Charm effect. Level 2: This inspires fear and terror into the victim, making it easier for the Kindred to combat him. Level 3: The Kindred of this level can create willing servants. Level 4: you can call to yourself anyone who you have met before (very cool). Level 5: Everyone treats the Kindred of this level with respect, fear, admiration and every other feeling for someone who is more powerful than you. Damn cool. Against the Cathay: This power affects Kuei-jin just as much as the next victim and is a kick-ass weapon against them. It work on so many levels.
Quietus is the Discipline of the assassin and is quite powerful in its own right. Level 1: the ability to cancel sound in a 20-foot radius. Level 2: convert your blood into poison. Level 3: can make a victim’s blood vessel’s explode within her body and kill her from the inside, choking on her own blood. Level 4: your blood is will cause Aggravated damage to all in contact with it. Level 5: Allows for the spewing of Aggravated damage blood from the Kindred’s mouth. Against the Cathay: This is a really cool power and can never be overlooked as a valuable weapon against the Kuei-jin. The Cathay have no way to counter this discipline and if the Camarilla were smart, they would call in their Assamite to take on the NMP.
Serpentis is the signature discipline of the Setites and has, for one reason or another, the theme of snakes. It still is a power to hold in awe, however. Level 1: the Kindred can place the victim in a capturing gaze, a trance of sorts. Level 2: The tongue become long, razor sharp (Aggravated damage), allowing for long distance drinking of blood and it can be used a Radar just like real snake use them. Level 3: makes the body of the Kindred resemble a snake. While still humanoid, the skin is scaly and the body is very flexible. They can fit through openings and can soak Aggravated damage. Level 4: the Kindred can transform into a huge snake with a venomous bite. Level 5: totally breaking the flow of the discipline, the 5thlevel allows the Kindred to remove his heart and keep it somewhere else. Against the Cathay: I’m sure lots of the Setites end up in conflict with the Kuei-jin and Serpentis is quite the combat ready Discipline. All of them are created for combat, even the last level that give protection from staking.
Thaumaturgy stands as the deadliest ability the Kindred have access to, for with it any new power can be created. Although the amount of expressions of Chi among the Kuei-jin are limitless, it takes decades, even centuries, to create a new Discipline. The Tremere have successfully created several paths apart from the ones detailed here. Quite the deadly ability, indeed.
Necromancy stands as another form of sorcery that the Kindred possess that follows different paths. This Discipline, just for the sake of mentioning it, is despised by the Kuei-jin and practitioners are hunted. This is another example of how the two differ, most Kuei-jin do not believe that controlling ghosts against their will is wrong. Although many of them have their own Rites to do the same thing.
Equilibrium is the first Discipline that is presented to the reader of the Kindred of the East book. It is presented in a very spiritual way and how it can be beneficial and can be used for good. But also given are the bad things that can be done with it too. Level 1: allows the Kuei-jin to change temporary Yin into Yang and vice versa. Level 2: the Kuei-jin can temporarily shift the balance of chi of the target, for better or worse. Level 3: allows the Kuei-jin to change permanent Yin into Yang and vice versa. Level 4: gives the Kuei-jin the ability to interrupt the chi in a victim’s body, always with bad effects. Level 5: allows for the tainted or purification of chi in the body. Against the Kin-jin: Although it can have subtle effects on the Kindred, this discipline is much more dangerous to other Kuei-jin and others that are attuned to chi.
Tapestry. Dealing with the Dragon Lines is an important thing in the Middle Kingdom, as they are all around the Kuei-jin. Level 1: calls spirits to you. Level 2: lowers the strength of the Wall (Gauntlet, Shroud, etc.). Level 3: can create good or bad joss (luck) based on subtle movements the Kuei-jin can make to the Dragon Lines. Level 4: allows for instantaneous travel along a Dragon Line. Level 5: can open portals to the Spirit Worlds. Against the Kin-jin: I don’t really see how this can be used against the Kindred. Although, the manipulation of spirits and luck is great and all, Necromancy can do the same thing with Wraiths.
Yang Prana. The Prana the Kuei-jin practice are feared for good reason and this Discipline is one of the main reasons why the Trashing Dragons are terrifying in combat. Level 1: give extra actions. Level 2: gives aggravated damage when wielding a wooden weapon, social bonuses when dealing with Yang spirits, and adds bonuses to the natural Yang abilities. Level 3: This is a fully controlled frenzy combat mode. Level 4: adds soak, allows the Kuei-jin to appear however she desires using illusions. Level 5: Allows for travel into the Yang Spirit Realms without help from any jade. Against the Kin-jin: Yang Prana is a devastating combat Discipline and is very bad against Kindred.
Demon Shintai is a common Demon Art for characters to choose during their training and is one of the most powerful and most dangerous Disciplines all in one. Triggering any Demon Art calls for an automatic Shadow Soul check. If you fail it, you have just unleashed a Demon in his natural form upon the world. If you make it you have control of this form. For every dot you have, you may select from a list of 20+ different attributes that range from demon weapons to wings to claws to the Delirium. Against the Kin-jin: Even though it takes 3 turns to change, it still puts the Kuei-jin a bit atop the Kindred. Only the Tzimisce and Lasombra have a form that may go against this Demon Art without worry.
Blood Shintai is very much a combat discipline and yet this is not reflected in the last level of the power. Level 1 allows you to expand or shrivel your body. Level 2 allows you to effect your victim’s blood flow, very detrimental to the Kin-jin. Level 3 allows for dodging all attacks during combat and still being able to attack. Level 4 creates a long whip made of blood and deals Aggravated damage. But level 5 is a little different. It allows the Kuei-jin to imbue inanimate objects with life or ensnare spirits with their blood. Against the Kin-jin: very useful against the Kindred, they should definitely watch out for masters of this discipline.
Cultivation represents the Kuei-jin trying to understand and manipulate their P’o. In higher levels, they may also influence others P’o as well. Level 1: forces dialogue with the Kuei-jin’s P’o or can be used to scan for the dark urges in others. Level 2: forces one of the Souls (either Hun or P’o) out of the body. Level 3: with this, the Kuei-jin ca separate another’s souls or goad one to the forefront. Level 4: Punishing the Demon. Cool. Level 5: The ultimate level can fuse the two souls together, relieving the Kuei-jin of their P’o for a while. Against the Kin-jin: Only level 3 has any effect on the Kindred, but with it the Kuei-jin the can force a Frenzy or Rotschreck on the victim.
Internalize is essentially a meditative power, representing their understanding of the mind and spirit together. Level 1: leaves the mind of the Kuei-jin unavailable for control or scanning. Level 2: deep meditation for recovering Willpower faster. Level 3: attacking from afar. That’s pretty much it. Level 4: Getting additional automatic successes from spending Willpower. Level 5: Combat in a deep meditative state. Pretty much makes the Kuei-jin the perfect combat machine. Against the Kin-jin: Obviously, the long distance attacks are useful, but are less powerful than if they were right there in their opponent’s face. And Level 5 just kicks ass!
Feng Shui, as a Discipline, is quite timid. It is a Kuei-jin only power that is used against only Kuei-jin. Although the 1st level is available to everyone, even mortals, the rest of the Discipline is not. With it, the Kuei-jin can clear taint from an area or create it, they can stop the ability to absorb chi in a specific area and even ward any shen from coming or leaving a specified. The down side to this discipline is that it requires a lot of set up and planning. Against the Kin-jin: It is not a combat discipline, no way, no how.
Another thing that must be remembered is, since the Kuei-jin do not have Clans that have specializations in certain Disciplines, they must work harder to gain their powers that, in some case, are far less powerful than the kindred. While the Kindred must spend Current x5 for their Clan Disciplines and Current x7 for out-of-clan powers, the Kuei-jin spend Current x8 for all their disciplines. Advantage: Kindred.
Since there are so many Twinks out there that pick out powers and games solely based on the amount of Aggravated damage that the characters can deal, I’ve gone through each power and counted how many powers each of the Vampires have to deal Aggravated damage. And here they are: Kindred 6, Kuei-jin 9. Advantage: Kuei-jin.
Chi Virtues: there are good and bad things depending on how your virtues are set up. If you have up 2 more Yang than Yin, then you may be staked by Metal. 2 more Yin and Yang warrants staking by Wood like a Kindred. If your Chi Virtues are within one of each other, then you can’t be staked, but your temporary Chi cannot be more than two of one than the other without being temporarily Imbalanced. Sound confusing, it is (for everyone but me). If you have 3 more of one than the other, then you are Imbalanced and that’s when you not only go insane (permanent derangement), but also gain additional abilities and additional penalties. I won’t go over them here, because they’re not really that good. The biggest one for the Yang Imbalance is the ability to create Dhampyr.
Temporary Imbalanced: This is the reason why balance is important. The Kuei-jin can essentially hold 20 points of Chi (10 Yang and 10 Yin), but if they exceed their Chi virtues, they are considered Temporarily Imbalanced. Any botch on any roll involving Chi will result in all the excess chi exploding doing automatic levels of Aggravated damage to the character (only Iron Mountain and Demon Shintai can soak this damage). Crazy, huh?
Soul virtues: Having 3 more Hun and P’o will result in not being able to access temporary Willpower points, while 3 more P’o than Hun gives the P’o one automatic check for Shadow Soul every night. Just another headache that the Kindred don’t have to put up with. Lucky them. Advantage: Kindred.
While both groups of Vampires have rituals that they can use, I thought I’d just mention a few things. ALL the Kuei-jin can use Rites, whereas only Thaumatugical Kindred can use rituals. It’s interesting that both have them and there are a few powers that work the same, but for the most part the Kuei-jin have the advantage for the shear fact that everyone can use them and not just the mages. Also, although the Kuei-jin cannot learn Kin-jin Disciplines and vice versa, they can however learn the Necromancy Rituals with the right instruction. This is, of course, frowned upon. Advantage: Kuei-jin.
Not that it’s a huge point, but I thought I’d say a little about the differences of the Half-breeds. Dhampyr have existed as long as Kuei-jin have, even back in the day when the Wan Xian existed as well. They are beings that are lucky to be alive and carry that luck around with them all the time. That’s their thing: they’re just damn lucky! They differ greatly from the Dhampir that have only recently, with the discovery of the 15th Generation, come into creation. These beings are similar to Revenants, creating their own blood and can even learn the powers of their parents (but only the first level, unless they are blood bound).
Both have an amazing capacity for great storytelling, but in terms of power I’d have to give it to the Dhampyr. They have been built for action, where the Dhampir is more for a low powered game. But both are really cool, IMO. Advantage: Kuei-jin, for the cooler offspring. LOL!
Well I will answer in two parts, but not with my own answers. The first answer is – “They Can!” Justin Achilli, even though he’s not directly the Kindred of the East developer, gave out this little tidbit. “They must have the entire mindset of an Asian and then die in the Middle Kingdom.” But, IMO, what would be the point of playing a character that talks Asian, walks Asian, thinks Asian and acts Asian, but be of a different race. The only difference between that character and an Asian character would be the skin color, which just seems silly to me. And even if they were totally Asian in mindset and went to Yomi, who do you think the demons and other Yama King worshippers will destroy first? Exactly.
The second answer will come directly from a post on the Kindred of the East boards. “Because they just do! They're like why Apple Jacks don't taste like apples. It's just something you eventually have to accept as part of the setting, and move forward. Because otherwise, you'll get into huge arguments over how stupid it all is, and then you'll become disillusioned, and then where will you be? Stuck with a book you don't care about anymore, that's where!” – Patkin. And I think that’s a great answer to that question as well. Why fight about it, just enjoy the game for how cool it.
Battles between the two are very easy to ST, as scores of metaplot are based just on that. The reasons given for the hatred between them are somewhat curved and must be addressed in the theoretical and actual.
The Theoretical reasons span many different themes and before a Kuei-jin even meets her western equivalent, they already have certain ideas in their heads. 1) Kin-jin are unclean and taint the chi in the area. Sure this is true about them, although they are able to keep hidden by not using powers as much as actually using hiding Disciplines. 2) They are ignorant and disrespectful to our ways. This can be true in a lot of instances, but not in most. 3) They are spiritually deficient. Not only that, but they are ghost-bullies as well. The funny thing is that the Giovanni, the one clan with any kind of alliance with the Kuei-jin, are the one’s responsible for these reactions.
The actual reasons, IMO, are much more convincing however. 1) They took our land and we must take it back through warfare. This is the first thing that is thrown into the mix when talking about the Kin-jin. The older Kuei-jin usually have a chip on their shoulders about how they died (many at the hands of Westerners). And before you say, the Chinese should hate the Japanese Justas much, they do. The wars between the Kuei-jin themselves go on nightly and are just as bloody as those that involve the Kin-jin. This also equates into one of the reasons for the GLO, to pay the Westerners back by taking their cities too. 2) They fill the same role in the world. Both need blood to survive and manipulate humanity. The same reason why there are fights in the jungle for territory. 3) The simplest and truest of all: Power. By taking out the Kindred, the Kuei-jin will accumulate their cities, their influence, and their power. This is quite the motivator into combat with the Kin-jin.
Hopefully, it has been shown here that both of the Vampires are powerful in their own right, just in different ways. By exploiting these advantages, either could be almost unstoppable, but the fact of the matter is that players min-max, characters simply exist. More concept driven games will not have the whole “The Kuei-jin are way too powerful” feel to them, because they are spiritual beings. But no smart vampire(of either type) goes around starting fights for anything but survival.
There are however those few times when combat is necessary and these fights are normally caused the Kuei-jin, not the Kindred. The Kindred simply want to survive, whereas the Kuei-jin are out to kick some ass. The worst part about it is that the Kin-jin aren’t considered part of the shen or the Middle Kingdom are then easy targets for frustration and angst with no repercussion, except that the Kin-jin could kill the Kuei-jin just as easily. These battles are an essential part of the setting as strike forces and guerilla tactics are used against each other in an endless torrent of war. So, if the Kuei-jin are so much more powerful, how are the Kin-jin still alive and kicking in the Middle Kingdom against the Hungry Dead’s will? Because they aren’t.
Every country in the Middle Kingdom does not deal with Kin-jin the same way. While, being Kindred in the lands of the Five August Courts or the Golden Courts will spark fight after fight, The Courts of the Gaki and the Green Courts are much more progressive in their thinking.
The Five August Courts of the Quincunx have dedicated themselves to getting revenge on the Western world for the injustice caused to China during the past centuries. However, even though their forces are out killing more Kin-jin than any other court, the Quincunx has secret ties to the Giovanni and their affiliates (members of other clans that work with the Giovanni). In Beijing, these Kin-jin hold a position that is similar to Diplomatic Immunity, where they cannot be touched as their usefulness has been shown to the ancestor, Chang Li, and he will not have his “western ambassadors” harmed. The Giovanni give information to the Blood Court, yet just enough to keep themselves in the good graces.
This is a fountain of ideas for a Kin-jin/Kuei-jin crossover. Being forced into a union with a Kin-jin (doesn’t have to be a Giovanni, could be another clan member who works for them) and after adventuring a bit, they discover that they are not that different. The biggest theme about the crossovers is Ignorance, but if they ever spent enough time together they would discover a lot about each other and themselves.
The Golden Court is the depraved kingdom of the Penangallan-queens. The courts themselves are more like tribes with certain territorial establishment and the rules of each kingdom may differ from one to the next. Any Kuei-jin or Kin-jin that enter this area are sure to be engaged on combat; very little can be done to avoid this. And this would not be the right place to run a crossover game, unless the characters were already together before they got here.
The Green Courts are the neutral courts of the Kuei-jin. They are not against anyone that isn’t directly against themselves, preferring to stay at the sideline and watch the battles from afar, then pick up the pieces afterwards. Because of this, they have no predisposed hatred to the Kindred. Rumors, right now, is that an old Necromancer is staying with the Green Courts, teaching Kin-jin rituals to the Korean Bone Flowers.
This can lead to many chronicles itself. The shear fact that Kin-jin are slightly more welcome here is a big draw, as well as the fact that an old, necromancer stays in Seoul itself. Few know exactly what these Kin-jin are, except that they are from India, have huge vaults of Necromancy information and are fleeing from a “family” that will kill them if they are found. So, you could be playing some Giovanni (or others that work for or with them) that go there along with some Kuei-jin allies. As well as, many Kin-jin and Kuei-jin cross paths on polite terms in Korean.
The Gaki have a love hate relationship with the Kindred. While the Kin-jin came into Japan and forced them into unfair treaties, the same as the Chinese, the Japanese, mortals and ketsuki alike, adapted to the changes much more quickly. Now, there are just the two houses. Bishamon are usually against the Kin-jin having any control over the politics in Japan, yet do not have the cravings of killing them outright, even if they could. The Genji embrace everything western and have even assembled themselves with various Kindred factions and groups, hoping to learn more about the west and about the Kindred themselves.
If you’re a Kin-jin, Japan is the place to be. You have more rights here than in any other place (although, not full rights) and the possibilities are limitless to the amount of crossover adventures that can be run here.
Covering the Kuei-jin in the west is a hard thing to do. The territories of the Camarilla, Sabbat, and Anarchs are not etched in stone. Another fact is that the Kuei-jin have not spread that far throughout the U.S., holding strong mostly on the west coast, with California standing as their front.
The Camarilla looks at the Kuei-jin with great suspicion. How is it that there is a Clan of Kindred that is unlike anything they’ve ever seen before. Only the Inner Circle – and a few lone Kindred scientists – know more about them, but they are truly alien to the Camarilla.
Kuei-jin traveling through Camarilla lands, other than California, can do so without much worry, as they can masquerade as one of the Kindred themselves. Most are too proud to do this however, which calls the attention of any Sheriff in the city to them. Because of the recent San Francisco Scare, lone Kuei-jin are normally torn to ribbons with little regret on the part of the Kindred who dealt the justice. The interesting thing is that Kuei-jin who are open to the idea of conversing and traveling with Kin-jin in the first place, seem to have better chances of gaining companionship from the Thin Blooded. They are both looking for protection from “Big Brother”.
The Sabbat, on the flip-side, aren’t interested in the outright killing of the Kuei-jin. They like the conflicts between the NPM and the Camarilla and see it as a ploy for them to weaken each other. Then the Sabbat will run in afterward and finish off who ever is left.
Kuei-jin traveling through Sabbat lands will see the same kind of depraved behavior as in the Golden Courts. The Sabbat are not afraid to show their vampiric natures and are sloppy eaters. A Kuei-jin who would want to join in on the action can easily be accepted into a pack, although he will be watched carefully for betrayal, as they cannot be controlled by the Vaulderie. This would be a good scene for a Devil-Tiger, Thousand Whispers or Thrashing Dragon to join for a bit of Dharmic enlightenment, but the effect would soon fade as it become one-dimensional must too quickly.
The Anarchs are the rebels of the Kindred, rebelling against the domination of the Camarilla, yet they also do not agree with the Sabbat. The Kuei-jin can, also, easily fit into this group, as long as they share the same views. Los Angeles is the biggest place where this happens, as the NPM and the Anarchs work together there frequently.
